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The great comment locking of 2017


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#1
Anonyan

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I was going to write this up as a big reply in spoiler tags, then end it with "and if this isn't here tomorrow that just proves my point," but then I realized that being needlessly antagonistic when your problem is with how mods carry out the rules, while also doing something that clearly falls under their idea of "against the rules," might not be the smartest idea I've had. So here we are.

My standpoint really comes down to "comments are way more convenient and general than forums so there's no reason to restrict them to the level of people repeating what they just saw," but I've left the original comment down below as well because I'm more verbose when I'm salty.

And just to be clear, I have no problem with the following comment, it was just the one that set off my nerd rage for whatever reason.

ce1f9dd9a153171290bff2c167a8fb92.png

My initial reply:

 

If small divergences in discussion based on things directly displayed in the work aren't allowed, we're better off having it locked forever.

I mean, short-lived discussions about croissants are perfectly normal if the manga dedicates multiple pages to croissant jokes, and nobody gets hurt if they have to skim over five or six posts from food nerds.

Discussions about telepathy powers will always be relevant here. Mousou Telepathy focuses heavily on what having telepathy might actually be like, and it really makes you think in ways you normally wouldn't about outlandish superpowers. People are gonna want to discuss that, and comments are a lot more convenient to use than forums topics for spur-of-the-moment discussions.

But I guess mods want all discussion to happen in the much less popular forum topics so comments turn into a hundred people parroting "this chapter was cool," as if that's somehow beneficial or interesting to anyone. By that logic your comment about how you like having comments back and don't want to lose them is worth locking comments over because everyone has to see your one sentence that isn't commentary on the exact panels in the latest release. Of course, they'll leave your comment because saying "oh no don't do things mods don't like" is more beneficial for their goals than people actually trying to have a nice chat about pastries.

They'll say "oh read the guidelines," but "posts not directly related to the manga" is pretty vague and mods who actually want readers to have a good time should use the loosest definition possible. "No flaming" and "keep discussions civil" can also be bent whichever way you want to interpret it. The guidelines should simply be guidelines, not an excuse to lock the comments even when the only interesting thing going on is tangentially related discussions. What else are we supposed to talk about?

 

/rant

 

Now, mods, I appreciate what you do and all, but this stuff has been on my mind every day when I scrolled down and saw that the comment section was STILL locked for, as far as I could tell, no reason whatsoever. I'm sure you're reading this and I know your first impulse is to just delete the topic because how dare someone have a problem with the way things are run around here, but as far as I can tell this isn't violating any forum rules. I'm not trying to pick a fight with any individual user or mod, I'm questioning the way things are in general and why so many people had to be inconvenienced by the comments being locked when I didn't see a single person complain and I imagine any private complaints were limited.

So please, I urge you, let this one be a center for discussion as it's meant to be, at least until people make it into a spiraling off-topic shitstorm.

 

Alright, peeps, what do you think? Does anyone share my thoughts, or am I just an angry loony? Should restrictions be looser? Tighter? Is it worth locking comments for review for so long regardless? Should we all band together and try to cause some real change in what it means to leave a comment, or let us jaded old fogeys mash their keyboards for a while then disappear into the night?

 

Discuss!


Edited by Anonyan, 10 March 2017 - 01:38 AM.

ayy lmao


#2
Caek

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Discussions about telepathy powers will always be relevant here.

 

Relevant? To a certain extent, yes. On-topic? Not necessarily.

 
(Speaking of which, if you want a nice chat about pastries, I recommend checking out the Batoto Discord. Or any other chatroom. The comments section isn't a particularly great place to have a conversation, or a discussion...)
 
Anyway, perhaps some commentary would be well suited for the comments section - I actually kept checking for new comments even though when it was locked. ;)

Edited by Caek, 10 March 2017 - 12:51 PM.

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#3
klayes

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While I don't enjoy locked comments, you have to understand that the comment section being ''off-topic'' was far from the only reason they had to shut it down both on this manga and Tomo. If I recall correctly(I registered a while ago) you have to read the guidelines, and it clearly states a few things there which people frequently violate on the more popular comment sections.

  1.  If your comment is more than 10 lines, put at least part of it in a spoiler tag.
  2.  If you're posting spoilers, tag it appropriately.
  3.  If you're using a huge image/multiple images in your comment, put it in spoiler tags.

Personally, discussion over food for 9-10 comments in a row doesn't bother me too much but I can see why it would be disallowed. What does grind my gears is when I have to scroll through a wall of text/images between a few people who've decided to have a huge, off-topic, public argument because they couldn't be bothered to at least put their squabble in tags. These issues aren't unique to Moutele or Tomo-chan, but because they're popular series, each chapter is short, and the scanlators are nice enough to release on a daily basis the kind of garbage which understandably pisses mods off pops up more frequently in the comments. People who can't follow these clearly laid out rules have no reason to whine as they are actively making the experience worse for everyone else.

 

With that said the line between what's on topic and off-topic is a bit fuzzy the way you've put it forward, Cake. It's up to mods to interpret it as they see fit of course, but in a 4koma where telepathy is the driving force behind the main character's personality, the comedy, and the plot(if you can call it that) I can think of veeeery few chapters where discussion over Nakano's condition wasn't in some way directly relevant to the releases. I'd also not entirely agree with you on your judgement over conversation/discussion: I think that in moderation they can greatly add to the comments, provided it's about the latest released chapter/how it relates to the rest of the manga.

 

I think the reason why quite a few people are miffed with the lockings is that
a.) they're salty because they can't troll and violate guidelines anymore or
b.) they take slight issue with this statement: "The exact application of the rules are at the discretion of the moderators and will be interpreted, adjusted, and modified as needed to fit new situations" in the context of what qualifies as 'on-topic'.

 

Now, I'm not saying there's anything unique about this approach to modding/admin, it's normal for rules to be at least slightly up to the discretion of those who enforce them. It's just that while most of the rules listed here(and in the general rules) are specific enough that it's hard to argue against their enforcement, what is and isn't 'related directly to the manga' is a tad bit more subjective. Discussions about what our favorite food is? Definitely off topic, sorry Anonyan. Discussions about whether [Moutele chapter 201 spoiler warning]

Spoiler
with comments chipping in drawing on any knowledge they might have on sports? Some people would say that counts as on topic, some would say it's not. And that's where a good deal of the displeasure at having comments locked is coming from. "Application of the rules are at the discretion of the moderators" is perfectly reasonable until it runs across a rule that many would consider too subjective/vague. That's where you get the slightly unfair(imo) accusations of power-tripping from: a vague rule + arbitrary enforcement looks foul no matter how justified it is.

 

According to Naizumi there's a ""Longer version of the comment section rules but that wont be fun to read"". Perhaps even if isn't the most riveting writing we've ever laid eyes on, it might be worth making those more accessible/public? There'd certainly be less confusion/displeasure over comment section locks if that was the case.

 

EDIT: all other matters aside, there are a few users getting worryingly upset in some of their forum posts about the actions the mods have taken. I think it's worth remembering that this is a manga reading site and to calm down a little.


Edited by klayes, 10 March 2017 - 06:34 PM.


#4
NZPIEFACE

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And as off-topic as this is, I now feel kinda bad for liking that comment.


Keep scrolling, nothing here


#5
Naizumi

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You guys can keep having this discussion here

We do not want to o much restrictions.
Lets take the example of no harassment..
religious ethnicity....whatever else that rules says,
It's like asking how to know which is consider harassment.....
Do we have to list examples or words so people
Know what it means?

The point is we don't want to restrict anyone
From posting/using the site. But they do have to
Know it's not a playground.

If we have only the comment section and there is
No forum section for comics, I had say there would be
different rules. What's the purpose of forum
Section being there then? You guys may want
The forum section to disappear all together,
But sadly this site have them.

Offtopics... Very vaguely means anything
That doesn't apply to the subject or focus
Of something.

Non-related discussions is exactly what
It says anything posts/comments that poses/
aims at topics which doesn't relate to the manga
and causes discussion to derail from the
Main subject(in our case is serie)

Let me ask you this how in anyway does
Discussion about her being kidnapped by government or
Her power use for government have anything
To do with the series?.... Then there is
Talk about talking about food picture sharing which is
apart of the manga so it's fine... But then it goes To facebook social media food sharing/daily selfies with food..

It just gets out of hand...do you want those proofs?
And yes very few complains. To be exact, I received
6 and theres those few from the other thread.

Other members tend to just continue to comment in thread
without complains. Oh there is the appeals process if anyone
Disagrees with any of mods action. The admins/higher ups
Have final say. Oh by the way comment section rules were
Approved by admin(s) before it is posted public.

It is the same as the hosting guideline. There are different level
of acceptability which depends on the content/contexts of
the posts relative to the series.
Shrugs cant satify everyone. Plus the ones that got warn
are mostly those that tries to turn the rules around.
Maybe work with the system is better than around it.

And I have to say I do believe none of us(mods)
Would consider the comment you quoted offtopic.
Ah I misread the complaint part....

We did receive a few reports/ I received pm regardin that C.S.
and particular individuals. It it's when a particular
Series get more than one complaints that we have to check it.
Not saying we don't check series in general.

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ןן[Must read] COMMENT SECTIONS RULES ן

Follow the comment sections' rules or else, you will be hanging at the edge of an cliff ^^
It maybe one step closer to death's door or an extension of your life's time.

#6
NotLoli

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 Perhaps even if isn't the most riveting writing we've ever laid eyes on, it might be worth making those more accessible/public? There'd certainly be less confusion/displeasure over comment section locks if that was the case.

 

 

I wonder, while it's certainly a good thing to have rules on a more accesible place for people to read, it won't make people read or even follow them. I'm not saying doing it is a waste of time, on the contrary, it's beneficial to everyone but I assure you people will still say mods are basically "abusing their powers" should a lock happen again.
 
The point of making rules accesible to the genereal public is to have a more solid ground when you need to enforce said rules, don't expect the userbase to do something they couldn't do before just because you made a small change in a giant site. Obviously, they are definitly more wary of them now that the lock happened.
 
In a more despicable way; it's the userbase's job to follow the rules, if they can't just fuck them over for being irresponsable. That's a mod's job after all.
 
TL;DR: Mods did their job, no more no less. Could have been handled in a better way? Yes, totally.


#7
Anonyan

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TL;DR: Mods did their job, no more no less. Could have been handled in a better way? Yes, totally.

 

 

This was kinda what I was trying to get at. I was still a little mad when starting this thread because of how long it went on, but that's exactly what my issue is, that comments were locked for so long over a couple of minor divergences. I'd understand if people were getting turbo racist or cursing or whatever, whereas with what was actually going on I'd imagine it shouldn't take more than locking it for a couple days and leaving a warning, especially on something that updates daily; it's not like the people who are carrying on a conversation are gonna miss it. That's what really got me riled up about how vague the rules are and why I think people should have a little more wiggle room on what's relevant. It felt like the kind of reaction you'd get when things need sorting out and permabans need to start flying, not a "hey stay on-topic."

 

...Though if these conversations about whether the rest of the team was garbage or not continue for much longer, I'd consider similar mod action to be perfectly fair the second time around since we've already been warned once. What the hell, guys.


Edited by Anonyan, 12 March 2017 - 07:26 PM.

ayy lmao


#8
klayes

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Rest of the team being garbage kinda relates directly to the recent chapters though. It's on topic, especially considering the internal drama coming from Toda's teamates.



#9
Anonyan

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Oh yeah 100%, but it's also the kind of thing that I could see being carried on for a while after the author moves on to other things.
I'm in here sayin' people should be given a little more leeway, and I still feel that way, but it's also never a great idea to keep doing something right after a big overblown warning about it either. Things are cool for now, but y'know how people can drag things out.


Edited by Anonyan, 12 March 2017 - 07:51 PM.

ayy lmao


#10
God Ginrai

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Let me ask you this how in anyway does
Discussion about her being kidnapped by government or
Her power use for government have anything
To do with the series?....


How does it not? For any character with special abilities in a series, fans will wish to discuss the ramifications of those abilities. In the case of telepathy, this would be using the power for good or evil, and the kinds of people (governments, evil organizations, etc.) who would be interested in acquiring the use of such abilities. In many stories, that leads to either being threatened or kidnapped; A perfect example is "Until Death Do Us Part" where the female lead was kidnapped for her precognitive ability.

-God Ginrai

Edited by God Ginrai, 13 March 2017 - 05:30 PM.


#11
Pandaking

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How does it not? For any character with special abilities in a series, fans will wish to discuss the ramifications of those abilities. In the case of telepathy, this would be using the power for good or evil, and the kinds of people (governments, evil organizations, etc.) who would be interested in acquiring the use of such abilities. In many stories, that leads to either being threatened or kidnapped; A perfect example is "Until Death Do Us Part" where the female lead was kidnapped for her precognitive ability.

-God Ginrai

 

It does not because there is no evidence or precedence in the series that such a thing will take place. Therefore it has little to do with the series itself and only to do with the implications of the power displayed. Something that would have been better discussed in a forum environment.

 

Yes it had precedence in another series but that series is not this one and therefore has little relevance. It'd be like relating One Piece to Black Lagoon because they both have pirates or Naruto and La Blue girl because they are based on Ninjas. They are different settings and different rules for the worlds within those series.

 

It might have worked as one or two comments but not the Exhaustive conversation it became.


Edited by Pandaking, 13 March 2017 - 06:20 PM.


#12
God Ginrai

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It does not because there is no evidence or precedence in the series that such a thing will take place. Therefore it has little to do with the series itself and only to do with the implications of the power displayed. Something that would have been better discussed in a forum environment.
 
Yes it had precedence in another series but that series is not this one and therefore has little relevance. It'd be like relating One Piece to Black Lagoon because they both have pirates or Naruto and La Blue girl because they are based on Ninjas. They are different settings and different rules for the worlds within those series.
 
It might have worked as one or two comments but not the Exhaustive conversation it became.


And yet when we talk about what happened in the comic itself (especially for these 1 page updates) we are spoiling the story. If you can't allow theoretical discussion, then that basically means you expect the comments section to only consist of 3 kinds of comments:
  • Thanks to scanlators/uploaders
  • Generic expressions of like or dislike without any real details
  • Messages in spoiler tags
This sounds like a very boring comment section, where people who want to discuss things would soon get tired of clicking to open spoiler tags for any sort of real conversation.

-God Ginrai

#13
definitionofinsanity

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Let me ask you this how in anyway does
Discussion about her being kidnapped by government or
Her power use for government have anything
To do with the series?.... Then there is
Talk about talking about food picture sharing which is
apart of the manga so it's fine...

 
So let me get this straight... Talking about food pictures because a single fucking page had it is "on topic discussion," but talking about Nakano and how her powers - WHICH ARE THE ENTIRE PREMISE BEHIND THE COMIC - and how it could affect the world is NOT?
 
Holy shit, how can you rationalize and justify that? I think I see the problem with the nebulous and subjective-as-all-fuck "related to the comic" discussion rule. This is on par with insane troll logic.

Edited by definitionofinsanity, 13 March 2017 - 07:49 PM.


#14
svines85

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that basically means you expect the comments section to only consist of 3 kinds of comments:

  • Thanks to scanlators/uploaders
  • Generic expressions of like or dislike without any real details
  • Messages in spoiler tags
This sounds like a very boring comment section, where people who want to discuss things would soon get tired of clicking to open spoiler tags for any sort of real conversation.

 

 

Which is exactly what this site's rules tells members the site wants the comment section to be.........and exactly why it then goes on to tell them that all other discussion should be taken to the forums, the site's preferred place for such discussion, not to mention the far superior venue (for a multitude of reasons) for such discussions.

 

This entire thing is (seriously) just about a small group of people demanding they get to do what they want and inconveniencing everyone else (the very site that's being kind enough to allow them to play here included) in the process.

 

Just that simple, a bunch of self-entitled people breaking the rules.


Tn7HA0h.png


#15
Pandaking

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Yes they have allow some leeway for minor discussions and perhaps they could have handled it better but when those minor discussions turn into weeks of multi-paragraph arguments THAT ARE BETTER DISCUSSED IN A FORUM SETTING then it makes sense for them to step in.



#16
definitionofinsanity

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Which is exactly what this site's rules tells members the site wants the comment section to be


Then what is the point of a comment section? Shit, that's more like a guestbook from a 1998 Geocities page.

But, that's not the problem. If that's what you and the moderator(s) seem to want, that's fine. But the problem is in the terribly inconsistent and admittedly by the staff inconsistent moderation of the rules. I'm sorry, but where in what community is "we'll change the rules and enforcement on the fly depending on how we feel about it" a usable moderation policy for people to be able to adhere to? Because it's not.
 

and exactly why it then goes on to tell them that all other discussion should be taken to the forums, the site's preferred place for such discussion, not to mention the far superior venue (for a multitude of reasons) for such discussions.


This is your opinion - and everyone has one of those. One myself and, seemingly many others, do not share. How do I know this? Look at popular(ish) manga series that are still active and see how many comments are being posted compared to the amount of forum posts. Tomo-chan is a brilliant example of this with HUNDREDS of comment pages and nary an active thread in comparison. Obviously the community there - which is active as hell - does not agree with you one single iota. Otherwise they'd be using the forums, which in comparison to the comments are a desolate ghost town complete with tumbleweeds.
 

This entire thing is (seriously) just about a small group of people demanding they get to do what they want and inconveniencing everyone else (the very site that's being kind enough to allow them to play here included) in the process.

Just that simple, a bunch of self-entitled people breaking the rules.


Oh the irony... Because I was "informed" by the mod that closed the comments section and posted in this thread that perhaps if I wanted the rules to be changed to my liking, I should donate to the site. Implying bribery and lobbying. I don't know about you, but that seems rather entitled and demanding and makes me apprehensive as hell about what is going on on Bato.

Interestingly, you're a supporter of the current nebulous and inconsistent rules and you're a comtributor... You can laugh that off as me being paranoid if you want, but those are not good optics for an already as it is muddled situation no matter how you wish to slice it.

Edited by definitionofinsanity, 13 March 2017 - 09:26 PM.


#17
God Ginrai

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Which is exactly what this site's rules tells members the site wants the comment section to be.........and exactly why it then goes on to tell them that all other discussion should be taken to the forums, the site's preferred place for such discussion, not to mention the far superior venue (for a multitude of reasons) for such discussions.
 
This entire thing is (seriously) just about a small group of people demanding they get to do what they want and inconveniencing everyone else (the very site that's being kind enough to allow them to play here included) in the process.
 
Just that simple, a bunch of self-entitled people breaking the rules.


Frankly, you're wrong. The comment section rules forbid us from topics not directly related to the manga. Discussions about the main character's powers, and possible ramifications of said powers, are directly related to the manga.

EDIT:

Yes they have allow some leeway for minor discussions and perhaps they could have handled it better but when those minor discussions turn into weeks of multi-paragraph arguments THAT ARE BETTER DISCUSSED IN A FORUM SETTING then it makes sense for them to step in.


There's no rule against this. As long as you are keeping to discussions directly related to the manga, and making sure that overly long comments are wrapped in spoiler tags, then it is allowed.

-God Ginrai

Edited by God Ginrai, 13 March 2017 - 10:31 PM.


#18
rkitty

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Can this be... the new comment section? 



#19
NotLoli

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can this be... the new comment section? 

 

Yes. (Not really.)

 

@God Ginrai

 

This sounds like a very boring comment section

 

And? That's what a comment is for. Period. If you want to have fun go to /a/, god knows everything is more funny in there.

 

Or make a thread... just saying.

 

Discussions about the main character's powers, and possible ramifications of said powers, are directly related to the manga.

 

And better discussed on a forum thread, since it's a topic most people will give their opinion on turning it into a whole debate.

 

You see, this whole deal is not only about the topic itself being directly related to the manga's content, it's about having long ass discussions on a section that it's meant to hold said discussions.

 

It's simple logic;

 

* Long ass discussions/topics people most likely will debate over? Forum thread.

 

* Casual comments/tsukkomis? Comment section.

 

* Casual talk between users? IRC or PM.

 

 

@definitionofinsanity

 

You see, what the userbase wants is not what the site needs, that's why comment sections get locked and shit happens. Site's rules aren't made to please you people, it's to keep the site in order and fuctioning.

 

Obviously the community there - which is active as hell - does not agree with you one single iota. Otherwise they'd be using the forums, which in comparison to the comments are a desolate ghost town complete with tumbleweeds.

 

Userbase's opinion means jackshit when they are actively breaking the rules because they can't follow a rather simple list and use each section how they should be. I mean, it's so hard to make a thread on this site? You don't even have to go the forum section since each manga has it's own thread page right above the chapter list. Efficient as hell, unlike many other websites.

 

Being a lazy bum (and using an "active userbase" as the selling point of your argument) doesn't really justify your rant and everyone bypassing the rules for their enjoyment. Stick to the rules or, well, get mad to the mods for doing their job. Whatever works for you.

 

Because I was "informed" by the mod that closed the comments section and posted in this thread that perhaps if I wanted the rules to be changed to my liking, I should donate to the site.

 

...or give them money and change the rules so you can take over all comment sections. Easy modo FTW!

 

Implying bribery and lobbying.

 

LMAO

 

I don't know about you, but that seems rather entitled and demanding and makes me apprehensive as hell about what is going on on Bato.

 

Holy shit, batoto is dying!1!11!! Abusive mods are demanding munny for their evil plans!!! HOT POCKETS!!!

 

Interestingly, you're a supporter of the current nebulous and inconsistent rules and you're a comtributor...

 

Yes, the mods bought us with loli dakimakuras and hentai magazines. We are (secret) supporters of the current nazi mod regiment over poor users.

 

On a serious note, demanding certain transparency to the people doing moderation is completely fine and encouraged. Getting paranoid and angry at them because you disagree on how they handle problems, it's ludicrous. Respect and calm arguments are the base for a good communication between userbase/mods, If they screw up it should be pointed out and talked over. Don't make it worse. (And I know I'm being hypocrital as fuck right now, but I ain't no mod so whatever.)

Edited by NotLoli, 14 March 2017 - 02:27 AM.


#20
svines85

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"This entire thing is (seriously) just about a small group of people demanding they get to do what they want"

 

Aaaaand.......the both of you just called me back to basically prove the very point I'd already made.

 

Reinterpreting the rules (to whatever suits your petty little demands), plaintively whining "well what's the point of it then...? (if we don't get to do what we want)..........yeah, perfectly fits "demanding they get to do what they want".

 

Bravo to the both of you for proving just how selfish and self-centered you are :)


Edited by svines85, 14 March 2017 - 07:00 AM.

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