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Shoukoku no Altair


Alt Names: alt ALTAIR ดาวจรัสฟ้า อินทรีถลาลมalt Altair ve Savaşlar Kitabıalt Altair: A Record of Battlesalt 将国のアルタイルalt 将国之天鹰星alt Bizden Biri "Altair"alt Shokoku no Altairalt Türkiyeli al-Nasr Altairalt The Rising Eagle of the General Nation
Author: Kato Kotono
Artist: Kato Kotono
Genres: Action ActionAdventure AdventureAward Winning Award WinningDrama DramaFantasy FantasyHistorical HistoricalSeinen Seinen
Type: Manga (Japanese)
Status: Ongoing
Description: For generations the Turkiye Devleti and the Balt-Rhein Empire have stood in stern opposition to each other. Then one night, when an imperial minister is found assassinated, the two nations are plunged into a potentially explosive situation. As the generals of Turkiye's council cry for war, Mahmut comes to discover the devious truth behind the assassination. Thus the young pasha's battle for his country, peace, and trust in his fellow man begins!

Spin-Off:
>Toukoku no Subaru (http://bato.to/comic/_/comics/toukoku-no-subaru-r18003)
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The following content is intended for mature audiences and may contain sexual themes, gore, violence and/or strong language. Discretion is advised.


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Chapters

Title Group Contributor Date
Vol.19 Ch.99: Wheels within Wheels
Sense-Scans KidCongo A week ago
Vol.19 Ch.98: Behind the Ruse
Sense-Scans KidCongo 3 weeks ago
Vol.18 Ch.97: Two Traps
Sense-Scans KidCongo 4 weeks ago
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366 Comments

The Duchess seems pretty competent as you have to keep in mind she manage to drag that entire army to the enemy capital and defeat the elite lancers defending the outside the cities without being discovered till she was right at their main capital and keep in mind her previous accomplishments.

Except she's not reached the capital (Altın) yet, she's still in Greater Türkiye. The capital they mention is of the Bıçak Stratocracy.

Okay was it just me that was hoping that evil chick shows up with the counter attacking cavalry and then was majorly disappointed?

 

I have to say I was pretty upset myself. Bhalt-Rhein has been an incredibly toothless antagonist for the past 20-40 chapters, to the point that it became difficult to take any of their initiatives seriously without wondering how they'd been set up for humiliating failure. It was getting to the point where the pacing seemed excruciatingly long-winded in tying the loose ends of its mid-arc, instead of setting up the civil war it is signaling will eventually break out between Mahmut and Zarganos.

 

So the current reversal is a pleasant surprise. It finally seems like Zarganos is in a serious dilemma for which there won't be easy answers or painful deus ex Keikaku Dori. I hope the Princess manages to actually go out with a bang, if not succeed outright.

I hope the duchess won't succeed, the turks number 43000 against her 44000. I'm certain that means a stall and considering how much they say Turks are fast, I doubt the duchess can just pillage as she pleases. In addition, didn't they mention sending pashas to build walls all around Turkiye. While I understand commerce focus means a weaker nation, they are still fighting a nation with a professional army.

They over ran the Urado border guards but I'm sure there are more soldiers who'd love to take a crack at her. Heck Mahmut can pull another sud army chase down. He could do it with 5k before, he'll do it again. Considering the stakes and his constant "I'm not a helpless child anymore", he will probably be successful. I doubt the duchess is as skilled as a commander as Fritzen. Heck Zagonos can let the Rhine kingdoms replace some soldiers while he sends a sizable force to clean up the duchess. I have no idea, why she did not send her 44k to kill Zagonos with the 15k hermann. While it is a good shocking move, her plan still has a relatively low success rate.

Several problems I need to point out. The duchess couldn't attack Zaganos due to the tunnel network being knocked out ruining their first plan to kill Zaganos and the Sud army is still mostly footmen thus likely which in the time they probably need to encircle Zaganos to lift the siege it would be probably too late. A large problem for either Zaganos or the Duchess attacking each other now is the distance required to get to each other and now both sides are at each other's capital and even if the Turkiye have horses it still is a great distance to travel back from the enemy capital to theirs.

Also her success rate is technically higher than you think as now that the lancers that were defending the cities were destroyed the turkiye now have to levy a quick makeshift force to defend their lands and I think the forces the Turkiye could muster will be at best the city guards and a civilian militia and that they have to rally in the same place whilst an invading army is right at your doorstep. The Duchess seems pretty competent as you have to keep in mind she manage to drag that entire army to the enemy capital and defeat the elite lancers defending the outside the cities without being discovered till she was right at their main capital and keep in mind her previous accomplishments. The duchess remains as one of the top bad asses for the Balt Rhein in my eyes and also still your talking about a large force within your borders that can then raze hell on your lands or possibly raze your cities. Not exactly the most comfortable of ideas. 

I thought this was not-ERE vs not-ottomans. Hence the Phoenician references and the walls of Constantinople, where nothing short of the "NEW ULTRA AMAZING" ottoman cannons could honestly put a dent in them, that couldn't be repaired in time.

 

The not-Roman Empire was Phoenicia, which started in the manga as a remnant with just the eponymous capital city left, though with a great cultural legacy. It fell to the not-Franks early in the manga when Mahmut was going "lads on tour" around those parts.

 

While definitely-not-Constantinople was no longer the first major victim of the cannons, it was still, as far as we know, the second (and it fell first anyway). The Venetians attacked it a second time with their newfangled cannon-armed galleys to remove what had become a major not-Frankish military base.

 

So although the author draws extensively from history, some things do get moved around.

Does anyone actually expect the not-HRE to fall here though?

 

I thought this was not-ERE vs not-ottomans. Hence the Phoenician references and the walls of Constantinople, where nothing short of the "NEW ULTRA AMAZING" ottoman cannons could honestly put a dent in them, that couldn't be repaired in time.

I kind of doubt the Balt Rhein will fall now due to the duchess now invading the turkiye lands. My guess is the duchess pretty much goes on a pillaging spree and then turkiye have to send a large portion of their troops to stop her and that they will be forced to release their siege on the Balt Rhein and forcing them back into stalemate. Could be possible that a large 3rd party interferes declaring war on both sides and further escalating the war.

 

No point in that whatsoever, the only thing that could stop them from finishing off the empire is nothing short of capturing the leaders, and the capital. A siege on the capital will just end in a race of "who kills the enemy king first" basically. And sucks although it may be, the outlying towns and villages can, and will be left to their own devices, Outside of Mahamut and his Lieutenants, what pasha would even bother leaving the walls?

I kind of doubt the Balt Rhein will fall now due to the duchess now invading the turkiye lands. My guess is the duchess pretty much goes on a pillaging spree and then turkiye have to send a large portion of their troops to stop her and that they will be forced to release their siege on the Balt Rhein and forcing them back into stalemate. Could be possible that a large 3rd party interferes declaring war on both sides and further escalating the war.

I hope the duchess won't succeed, the turks number 43000 against her 44000. I'm certain that means a stall and considering how much they say Turks are fast, I doubt the duchess can just pillage as she pleases. In addition, didn't they mention sending pashas to build walls all around Turkiye. While I understand commerce focus means a weaker nation, they are still fighting a nation with a professional army.

They over ran the Urado border guards but I'm sure there are more soldiers who'd love to take a crack at her. Heck Mahmut can pull another sud army chase down. He could do it with 5k before, he'll do it again. Considering the stakes and his constant "I'm not a helpless child anymore", he will probably be successful. I doubt the duchess is as skilled as a commander as Fritzen. Heck Zagonos can let the Rhine kingdoms replace some soldiers while he sends a sizable force to clean up the duchess. I have no idea, why she did not send her 44k to kill Zagonos with the 15k hermann. While it is a good shocking move, her plan still has a relatively low success rate.

Does anyone actually expect the not-HRE to fall here though? The coalition Turkiye (the not-Ottomans) have set up is a relatively loose one, and once the threat of BR is gone or diminished, its allies may no longer feel the need to play for the same team, especially given the Stratocracy's increasing relative power (countered somewhat by the costs of the war, both in terms of economics and manpower). I dunno, I guess that based on how the HRE and Ottoman roles were switched in many respects for this manga, there's probably going to be a point where the Turks get stopped and both sides undergo declines as the Military Revolution takes place and the future Napoleon equivalent proceeds to invade one empire while dismantling the other.

 

OTOH, this is a work of fiction and the author is more than free to have things go off on a totally different tangent.

I kind of doubt the Balt Rhein will fall now due to the duchess now invading the turkiye lands. My guess is the duchess pretty much goes on a pillaging spree and then turkiye have to send a large portion of their troops to stop her and that they will be forced to release their siege on the Balt Rhein and forcing them back into stalemate. Could be possible that a large 3rd party interferes declaring war on both sides and further escalating the war.

#teamzaghanos #zaghanosforpadishah Crush the remaining Balt-Rheim and procalim yourself Emperor/Padishah Zaghanos!.

Does anyone actually expect the not-HRE to fall here though? The coalition Turkiye (the not-Ottomans) have set up is a relatively loose one, and once the threat of BR is gone or diminished, its allies may no longer feel the need to play for the same team, especially given the Stratocracy's increasing relative power (countered somewhat by the costs of the war, both in terms of economics and manpower). I dunno, I guess that based on how the HRE and Ottoman roles were switched in many respects for this manga, there's probably going to be a point where the Turks get stopped and both sides undergo declines as the Military Revolution takes place and the future Napoleon equivalent proceeds to invade one empire while dismantling the other.

 

OTOH, this is a work of fiction and the author is more than free to have things go off on a totally different tangent.

I think the actual interesting part will come when Turkiye will get full of themselves and Venedic (Rumelian aliance) are not happy with their share anymore. Or Suleiman and Mahmut changing sides vs Zaganos (he aims for the top)

Rod orm is alive and id' like to see them become public in a version of Dragon order, Vlad III of valakia included.

Tughrills and former ears trying to salvage the new Otoman Empire from corruption qualifies too.

Mongols?

I think Turkish Composite Bow got misinterpreted as Mongolian counterpart for a sec

2700 followers? I remember when this page was a graveyard...

I think the actual interesting part will come when Turkiye will get full of themselves and Venedic (Rumelian aliance) are not happy with their share anymore. Or Suleiman and Mahmut changing sides vs Zaganos (he aims for the top)

Rod orm is alive and id' like to see them become public in a version of Dragon order, Vlad III of valakia included.

Tughrills and former ears trying to salvage the new Otoman Empire from corruption qualifies too.

Mongols?

Okay I kind of agree with this but ..... In a story about war, it gets quite damn stale if the "good" guys keep winning almost all the time


To the whole quote, same. The only time these victories could be exciting is when we get to see the good guys in action. I mean it's more engaging when we get to see what they do, the way they think, etc. To get the result rather than give the result and reason for it. Feels like there's more Tell than there is Show.

English hunting longbows had 60-70 pounds, actual war bows had 90-120 pounds, sometimes more. So much that bowmen spine was twisted from practice. Mongolian bows had shorter draw lengths, and the arrows were lighter, so they had less kinetic energy then English arrows. If one of them would pierce plate armor it would be the English one. Not dissing the Mongolian bow but piercing full plate wasn't its job (or any bow's, but European full plate was that good) and English bows were made with long distance shots in mind while with horseback archery it isn't necessary.

Mongol bows were also long range beasts. Depending on the sorts of arrows one used.

Okay I kind of agree with this but 2 points I want made. Firstly it was just introduced in this chapter as being this big game changer then SUDDENLY the "good" guys find it and disable it in same chapter. Like seriously the author made it a big deal in the first few pages then kind of killed it for me with the murder boner and the empire have a interesting counter attack. Secondly all this war has been so far was a colossal ass whooping of the empire so far and the empire is supposed to be this big bad empire with a good giant military but they get their asses handed to them NEARLY EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME. I can concede some of the protagonist victories as they were quite interesting but we have not really seen a good counter attack by the empire.

In a story about war, it gets quite damn stale if the "good" guys keep winning almost all the time specially against a huge foe like the empire. In fact the only memorable victory I have from the empire was when they killed the old nice man and yet a majority of the empire characters that I would find interesting either get killed off or captured or whatnot. Luckily we still have the evil beast chick and hopefully she does make a comeback counterattack for goodness sake.

I agree to an extent, but you never should have expected anything to actually come from the tunnels, considering Zaganos' plot armor.

Mongolian composite bows have a draw power of around 100-160 pounds. English longbows only have a draw power of 60-70 pounds. Not a good comparison at all. 

English hunting longbows had 60-70 pounds, actual war bows had 90-120 pounds, sometimes more. So much that bowmen spine was twisted from practice. Mongolian bows had shorter draw lengths, and the arrows were lighter, so they had less kinetic energy then English arrows. If one of them would pierce plate armor it would be the English one. Not dissing the Mongolian bow but piercing full plate wasn't its job (or any bow's, but European full plate was that good) and English bows were made with long distance shots in mind while with horseback archery it isn't necessary.

Mongolian composite bows have a draw power of around 100-160 pounds. English longbows only have a draw power of 60-70 pounds.


They even talk about this in Chapter 72, but I guess everyone forgot xD

To be fair, we were introduced to the tunnels only this chapter. And if they've existed for centuries, it would take a very incompetent spy network to not discover this.

Okay I kind of agree with this but 2 points I want made. Firstly it was just introduced in this chapter as being this big game changer then SUDDENLY the "good" guys find it and disable it in same chapter. Like seriously the author made it a big deal in the first few pages then kind of killed it for me with the murder boner and the empire have a interesting counter attack. Secondly all this war has been so far was a colossal ass whooping of the empire so far and the empire is supposed to be this big bad empire with a good giant military but they get their asses handed to them NEARLY EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME. I can concede some of the protagonist victories as they were quite interesting but we have not really seen a good counter attack by the empire.

In a story about war, it gets quite damn stale if the "good" guys keep winning almost all the time specially against a huge foe like the empire. In fact the only memorable victory I have from the empire was when they killed the old nice man and yet a majority of the empire characters that I would find interesting either get killed off or captured or whatnot. Luckily we still have the evil beast chick and hopefully she does make a comeback counterattack for goodness sake.

I can't tell if the author went deus ex bs or if they're trolling.... I'm in a state of unknown suspense bc of "benefit of the doubt" x_x

Okay was it just me that was hoping that evil chick shows up with the counter attacking cavalry and then was majorly disappointed? I get that they are the "good guys" but even I get tired of the antagonists getting their asses whooped at every turn of the battle especially more so in a setting based on medieval warfare between warring factions. Author portrays the enemy as devious and cunning yet SUDDENLY protagonists info network manage to find said tunnel out of nowhere and close it off. I got a murder boner here then the author hits me with this and gets cut right off -_-.

I feel your pain but take solace in the fact that the duchess is hinted at gunning down Urado and Turkiye if the volume opening is any hint.

Okay was it just me that was hoping that evil chick shows up with the counter attacking cavalry and then was majorly disappointed? I get that they are the "good guys" but even I get tired of the antagonists getting their asses whooped at every turn of the battle especially more so in a setting based on medieval warfare between warring factions. Author portrays the enemy as devious and cunning yet SUDDENLY protagonists info network manage to find said tunnel out of nowhere and close it off. I got a murder boner here then the author hits me with this and gets cut right off -_-

 

To be fair, we were introduced to the tunnels only this chapter. And if they've existed for centuries, it would take a very incompetent spy network to not discover this.

Okay was it just me that was hoping that evil chick shows up with the counter attacking cavalry and then was majorly disappointed? I get that they are the "good guys" but even I get tired of the antagonists getting their asses whooped at every turn of the battle especially more so in a setting based on medieval warfare between warring factions. Author portrays the enemy as devious and cunning yet SUDDENLY protagonists info network manage to find said tunnel out of nowhere and close it off. I got a murder boner here then the author hits me with this and gets cut right off -_-

Against weaker armor sure, but against top quality 15-16th century full plate? I find that really doubtful.
Not saying piercing armor is impossible, just that it is a sign it being shoddily made armour as even the famed english longbowmen had trouble to outright penetrate plate armour during the hundred years war.

 

Mongolian composite bows have a draw power of around 100-160 pounds. English longbows only have a draw power of 60-70 pounds. Not a good comparison at all. 

Against weaker armor sure, but against top quality 15-16th century full plate? I find that really doubtful.
Not saying piercing armor is impossible, just that it is a sign it being shoddily made armour as even the famed english longbowmen had trouble to outright penetrate plate armour during the hundred years war.

 

The battle took quite some time, and while still slightly odd, you can think of it as, repeated strikes in the same area causing dents / faults in the metal.

 

That being said, on a personal level, I don't believe composite Shortbows of any kind would do much damage to anything plated like that. As you said, even the english/welsh longbow would struggle at a close range to penetrate armor of that sort. But, if you think about it, what the knights are doing is equally ridiculous. Chasing faster horses in HEAVILY ARMORED warhorses. The warhorses would be tried after 2 hours let alone the duration of this battle (Which is unknown as far as I know.) Their horses would be practically dying right about now.


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